dimanche, décembre 13, 2009

MÉGA SONDAGE AUPRÈS DES PHILOSOPHES PROFESSIONNELS

On dit que c'est le plus grand sondage jamais réalisé sur les positions défendues par les philosophes professionnels.[Je n'ai pas encore regardé l'échantillon ou la méthodologie].

On y découvre les données suivantes:

Athéisme: 72.8%
Théisme: 14.6%
Autre: 12.5%

Naturalisme: 49.8%
Non-naturalisme, mais pas nécessairenet supernaturalisme:25.8%
Autre:24.2%

189 commentaires:

Jean-Joël Kauffmann a dit…

Bonjour,

1°/ L'expression "philosophe professionnel" me laisse songeur. Mais après tout, il y a bien des sportifs professionnels, alors pourquoi pas des philosophes professionnels ?

2°/ Petit assaut de pédanterie. Mon dictionnaire indique deux définitions pour le mot "théisme":

a) "En philosophie, doctrine qui affirme que le principe du monde et de toute chose est un Dieu unique, transcendant au monde."

b) "En pathologie, intoxication par abus de thé."

c) Ma définition personnelle : "En pathologie, doctrine qui affirme que le principe du monde et de toute chose est un Dieu unique, transcendant au monde."

JJK

Anonyme a dit…

@JJK : J'ai aussi eu le réflexe de regarder dans le dictionnaire et j'ai trouvé la définition pathologique plutôt comique. Je m'abstiendrai de commenter votre point 2c pour l'instant même si j'en ai l'envie.
@M. Baillargeon : Est-ce que ces résultats vous surprennent, où vous situez vous dans ces données et pourquoi brièvement (si ce n'est pas trop indiscret et/ou pointilleux)?

Normand Baillargeon a dit…

@ Jean-Joël:
1. je suppose qu'on veut dire qui en font profession.
2. Prévert a fait un texte sur ce double sens, dans Fatras, de mémoire, ou alors dans Choses et autres) . C) est savoureux.

Normand

Normand Baillargeon a dit…

@Mémopourjm: les résultats ne m'étonnent pas, ni en gros les autres que j'ai vus.J'ai rédigé un chapitre dans le livre : Heureux sans Dieu, dans lequel j'expose mes positions sur al religion et Dieu et comment j'y suis arrivé. Je le posterai ici avant longtemps.

Cordialement,

Normand

Anonyme a dit…

Merci pour la réponse rapide. Fidèle au poste m'sieur! Je me demande maintenant pourquoi vous (qui collaborez avec les Sceptiques du Québec) et les philosophes ne tendez pas plutôt vers l'agnosticisme. Peut-être trouvai-je la réponse dans Heureux sans Dieu?

Normand Baillargeon a dit…

@memopourim: vous avez raison de souligner cette distinction entre agnosticisme et athéisme. J'aboutissais pour ma part à ceci dans mon texte (en deux fois pacq trop long):

Les philosophes distinguent parfois un athéisme négatif et un athéisme positif.

Le premier est celui de la personne qui est sans (d’où le privatif : a-) croyance en dieu (-théisme). Je pense que les enfants naissent athées en ce sens et que nombreux êtres humains l’ont été, puisque la religion est une création humaine apparue à un moment de l’histoire.

Le deuxième sens, celui de l’athéisme positif, est celui selon lequel Dieu n’existe pas.

Après avoir été, bien évidemment, athée au premier sens du mot, je suis aujourd’hui, et depuis très longtemps, athée au deuxième sens du mot.

C’est que je pense qu’il revient à ceux et celles qui croient en Dieu d’avancer des raisons et des arguments qui justifient cette extraordinaire croyance et je soutiens qu’il n’y en a aucun qui soit le moindrement convaincant. Je pense même qu’au contraire plusieurs arguments solides invitent à conclure que Dieu n’existe pas — le principal étant l’existence du mal (c’est l’appellation traditionnelle, mais je dis plus volontiers : de la souffrance), qui est incompatible avec l’idée de Dieu telle que les grandes religions la présentent.

La seule position qui me paraît dès lors le moindrement défendable pour un croyant est de reconnaître que les incroyants ont les meilleurs arguments dans tout ce débat et de s’autoriser néanmoins ce que certains croyants ont appelé le «saut de la foi». Ce faisant, le croyant s’immunise contre la critique, mais il se soustrait aussi à toute discussion et à toute prétention à vouloir imposer ses croyances dans l’espace public ou à les imposer aux autres de quelque manière que ce soit et tout particulièrement aux enfants à travers l’éducation.

Normand Baillargeon a dit…

Suite: Je reconnais que je ne peux prouver hors de tout doute raisonnable l’inexistence de dieu — qui est au demeurant une de ces propositions existentielles négatives qui sont très difficiles à établir. Mais les propositions empiriques, sitôt donc qu’on exclut de l’ensemble de propositions celles de la logique et des mathématiques, sont toutes établies avec divers degrés de probabilité : et la probabilité de l’existence de Dieu me semble à toutes fins utiles si négligeable, que je tiens en pratique son inexistence pour certaine.

D’un point de vue épistémologique, je la considère comme ayant la même probabilité que l’existence de cette théière dont paraît Bertrand Russell et qui graviterait autour de Mars quoiqu’étant absolument indétectable par tous nos instruments d’observation. Le fardeau de la preuve, dans le cas de cette théière comme dans celui de dieu, revient à ceux qui voudraient nous faire croire en ces objets de la pensée et il n’y a, sur un plan intellectuel, rien qui soit le moindrement discutable ou malhonnête à refuser de donner sa créance à quelque chose qu’il n’y a aucune raison d’accorder. Comme vous, je suppose, je ne crois pas à cette invisible théière; et je ne crois pas en dieu.

Cette position athée me semble entièrement naturelle, au point où l’existence de gens qui croient en Dieu et qui appartiennent à une religion dont ils suivent les préceptes est une chose qui m’est entièrement étrangère et, je dois l’avouer, parfaitement incompréhensible.

Il y a en effet dans toutes les religions sans aucune exception tant de propositions que le fidèle doit croire et qui sont absolument délirantes et tant de pratiques qu’il doit suivre et qui sont ridicules, que je n’arrive pas à comprendre qu’un homme ou une femme disposant de quelques neurones en état de marche puisse réellement croire les unes et se conformer aux autres.

Mais le fait est que même les croyants sont athées, du moins en ce qui concerne ce nombre incalculable de divinités auxquelles croient toutes ces personnes qui adhèrent ou on adhéré à une religion autre que la leur. Catholique, croyez-vous en Thor? Musulman, adorez-vous en Zeus? Juif, priez-vous l’une ou l’autre de toutes ces divinités du panthéon hindou? Vous voici donc athée pour tous ces dieux-là.

Jonathan Livingston a dit…

Votre argumentation est intéressante.

Je suis athée, je dirais plutôt neutre! Néanmoins, je me suis réconcilié avec les croyants et j'ai développé un autre regard sur les religions en copinant les écrits d'un Carl Gustave Jung, psychanalyste bien connu et influent en psychologie qui s'est longuement intéressé à la dimension psychologique de l'homme religieux et à ce qu'il a appelé la fonction religieuse en nous quelque part bien en nous dans notre psyché inconsciente.

Les religions offrent des interprétations rassurantes et un certains sens à des épreuves de vie que tout homme traverse. Elle trouve des fidèles parce qu'en nous une capacité de symbolisation demande de rassurer nos représentations apeurantes du monde. Il faut avoir traversé le calvaire d'une situation humaine sans solution et qui nous dépasse pour comprendre l'importance et le besoin de sens, de recadrage et d'expression des émotions.

Enfin, en y réfléchissant, en changeant la perspective, en ne voyant pas que les travers insensés des religions, on découvre beaucoup de fonction sociale utile à l'encadrement humain qu'ont offert les pratiques religieuses de tout temps. De nombreuses manifestations de sagesses humaines s'y expriment aussi...

Évidemment, les religions ont aussi permis de prendre un certain pouvoir sur les gens et ont connu leur part d'irrationalité et de travers... Mais bon, je regarde pour le moment la face positive de la religion si elle en a une.

Enfin, la psychologie moderne répond maintenant à ce besoin pour les gens athées aussi. Elle est l'héritière quelque part de l'aventure religieuse humaine.

Enfin, il est difficile de ne pas sentir parfois de curieux hasards, de curieux signes, ou une sorte d'instinct qui nous parlent et nous indique un sens à suivre dans nos vies. Sans y voir nécessairement une présence divine, on peut aussi envisager en nous un cerveau qui a un lien au delà de notre conscience avec l'univers et qui formule un cinéma plein de sens pour orienter l'idiot conscient qui nous gouverne! Il n'y a souvent aucune logique permettant de choisir sûrement le chemin le plus approprié à certain embranchement de l'existence. On n'est pas tous non plus facilement «conditionnables» par les médias pour suivre sans soucis les modes et les plans de carrières, de pensions... Quand on sort des sentiers battus, on rencontre les réalités curieuses d'un univers psychique qui balise souvent l'avancée en terre inconnu. Tout voyageur développe une certaine spiritualité. D'ailleurs, le pélerinage est une pratique religieuse répandue qui visait la rencontre avec le divin.

Jonathan Livingston a dit…

Les symboles de la religion, finalement, sont souvent des sujets de méditations fort intéressants. La crucifixion est une belle métaphore de l'homme pris dans un ensemble de contradiction personnelle qui doit changer, mourir à un moi inadapté pour se renouveler dans une personnalité autre.

L'image du Minautore dans le labyrinthe des Crétois ou Grecs ne parlait-elle pas aussi de cet étrange épreuve de l'homme qui cherche sa voie et doit domestiquer son instinct et trouver son chemin. Chaque mythe a sa leçon humaine à nous offrir sur un mode symbolique...

C'est ce qui a fait dire à Jung, que pour des gens croyants, la pratique religieuse et la méditation des thèmes religieux guérissait beaucoup de maux!

Depuis cette rencontre avec la psychologie jungienne, mon athéisme positif s'est mué en un amusement intrigué face à toute les manifestations de la spiritualité humaine. Cela m'a aidé à me relever souvent de situation inextricable de mon existence... Un grand cul-de-sac à la fin de ma vingtaine qui a duré quelques années m'a enseigné ce que je partage ici.

Bref, avant d'entrer dans un débat logique avec un croyant, je me demande s'il vaut la peine de déstabiliser un homme qui a peut-être besoin de ces représentations, de cette communion humaine, de ces rituels rassurants et même de me convaincre pour survivre à de grandes blessures de l'existence...

Voilà donc la contribution d'un voyageur qui souvent aussi s'occupe de philosophie!

Anonyme a dit…

Il est très plaisant de pouvoir discuter de telles choses sans se faire menacer de torture, de prison ou de peine de mort... à d'autres époques ou d'autres endroits, nous ferions face à ces « châtiments » j'ai l'impression.
@M. Baillargeon : Réponse satisfaisante et très intéressante! Je vais surement réfléchir et lire sur le sujet encore, mais je dois avouer que je suis athée d'une certaine façon vu ma non-croyance de certains dieux, c'est irréfutable. Merci de me partager votre raisonnement fort bien construit.
@M.Livingston : Vos dires sont très intéressants et complètent bien les propos de m'sieur Baillargeon. Il va falloir que je relise du Jung dans un avenir rapproché! Merci à vous aussi.

Jean-Joël Kauffmann a dit…

Bonjour,

A propos de la psychologie jungienne :

"Carl-Gustav Jung (1875-1961) était un psychiatre suisse et un collègue de Freud qui s’éloigna de la psychanalyse freudienne à propos de la question de l’inconscient considéré (par Freud, ndt) comme réservoir de traumatismes sexuels refoulés à l’origine de toutes les névroses. Jung a fondé sa propre école de la psychologie analytique.

Jung a cru à l'astrologie, au spiritualisme, à la télépathie, à la télékinesie, à la voyance et la perception extra-sensorielle. En plus de la croyance en un certain nombre de notions occultes et paranormales, Jung en a créé deux nouvelles : la synchronicité et l’inconscient collectif. (...)

Selon le psychiatre et auteur, Anthony Storr, Jung a traversé une période de maladie mentale lors de laquelle il a pensé qu'il était un prophète doté d’une "perspicacité spéciale." Jung se réfère lui-même à sa "maladie créatrice" (de 1913 à 1917) comme confrontation volontaire avec l’inconscient. Sa grande "perspicacité" consistait à penser que tous ses patients de plus de 35 ans souffraient de "perte de religion" (loss of religion) et qu’il possédait justement ce qu’il fallait pour remplir leurs vies vides, sans but et dénuées de sens : son propre système métaphysique des archétypes et l’inconscient collectif. La synchronicité permet d'accéder aux archétypes, qui sont situés dans l’inconscient collectif."

http://www.sceptiques.qc.ca/dictionnaire/jung.html

Jean-Joël Kauffmann a dit…

Bonjour,

Jung se prenait aussi, selon Jacques Bénesteau, pour la "réincarnation d'un "Christ aryen", une sorte d'Antéchrist polythéiste, païen et polygame. Sous les traits d'un Abraxas léontocéphale - avatar à tête de lion, hermaphrodite à pattes en formes de serpents et armé d'un fouet - il rencontrait en personne les dieux des temples mithraïques, et, auto-déifié, il rédigea à leur intention ses "sept sermons aux morts". Dans son bureau, il dialoguait seul, mais à plusieurs voix, avec ses dieux païens de l'Antiquité. (...)"

Jacques Bénesteau, "Mensonges freudiens", éd. Mardaga, 2002, p. 95.

http://books.google.fr/books?id=OTH5kq7fUtoC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Jung+B%C3%A9nesteau&source=bl&ots=yy3FJCgome&sig=a_kGZP5iBFsLVa4f8LWN0_mBNXU&hl=fr&ei=doMoS4KCB53SjAe_jvWlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

JJK

Jonathan Livingston a dit…

JJK,

On dirait que vous savez parfois bien faire ce qu'il faut pour tuer la curiosité... Moi aussi, cela m'arrive... Il en est toujours de malsaine d'ailleurs!

Fort heureusement, on trouvera du bout des doigts sans peine dans le monde moderne des associations plus positives aux personnalités de Freud et Jung que les vôtres, bien qu'il faille bien sûr examiner et juger de l'utilité de ce qu'ils ont tenté de faire surtout et du legs, s'il en est, de leurs explorations et de leurs tentatives de systématiser ce qu'ils ont cru découvrir...

Personnellement, c'est ma petite histoire, j'ai préféré le délire jungien et quelques-uns de ces enseignements, que j'ai rencontré un jour (synchronicité ésotérique?) où tout n'allait pas comme sur des roulettes, à la psychiatrie moderne pour dépasser mes maux. Il faut avoir pris leur machin en flacon un jour pour savoir comment on peut avoir l'impression de se faire voler sa personnalité tant le décalage induit est saisissant... pas toujours pour le mieux!

Lisant Dune de Frank Herbert à l'époque et prenant des antidépresseurs, qui ne m'allait pas trop, j'avoue m'avoir pris un peu par identification excessive pour un Kwizack Haderack, le messie de Dune chargé de toutes les mémoires et capable de voir l'avenir, et avoir trouvé le cycle des Fondation d'Azimov fort parlant au travers le regard symbolique que Jung m'apprenait dans ses écrits. Et c'était sans même en fumer du bon!

J'ai appris dans ces explorations quelques petites choses de la vie fort intéressantes, dont la lecture symbolique des histoires qui est toujours fascinante. Mais bon, libre à chacun de choisir son chemin d'expérience et de découvertes...

J'ai bien aimé cette promenade où il n'y a pas eu que Jung pour m'intriguer des productions humaines, même s'il y a longtemps que j'ai passé à autre chose et que mon équilibre psychique ait pris du mieux.

Je terminerai avec votre définition personnelle du théisme qui est sûrement un mot d'esprit dont Freud se serait régalé!

J'aimais mieux, nez en moins:

«En pathologie, intoxication par abus du doux thé.»

Et enfin, j'ai eu l'impression par moment qu'il faille parfois se demander: à quoi ou pourquoi faut-il rester si fidèle?

Les réponses à ces questions éclairent parfois nos raisonnements!

Pas toujours aussi éthéré,

Jaune attend living stone.

Alexis a dit…

Wow...

Frederic a dit…

j'ai noté 2 choses aussi en lisant ce sondage :


d'abord sur tout les 3226 répondants , 484 n'ont "aucune affiliation ou appartenance philosophique reconnue ou déclaré" , ont ce demande qui ils sont ? et qu'est ce que ils font dans cette étude ?
http://philpapers.org/surveys/demographics.pl


et puis sur la question , Dieu : Théisme ou athéisme ? (environ 70% athéisme) l'échatillon de répondants semble être de 209 (sur 3226)
quel conclusion peut on tirer d'échatillon aussi peut représentatif ?
surtout que il est précidé apparment une "marge d'erreur de 20% a 18%" si j'ai bien compris
http://philpapers.org/surveys/metaresults.pl


http://dieu-atheisme.over-blog.com/

Normand Baillargeon a dit…

@Frédéric: intéressantes observations J'avoue ne pas avoir eu le temps de regarder tout ça, même de loin.

Normand

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